- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh informed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a undertaking, together with good vitality administration, will help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging presents month-to-month fee plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, as a way to handle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a website online or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip means of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that perform collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others could rely upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it programs which might be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising discipline equivalent to EV charging infrastructure, it might be exhausting for potential prospects to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is massive, and the relationships amongst them will be complicated—just like the record of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms focus on one layer of the stack, and others provide a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s one of the best course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and provided some ideas for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of prospects does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal prospects are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, equivalent to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which might be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as nicely.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all in regards to the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the largest problem with charging as we speak—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve received what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about rather a lot. I for one thought it was an incredible firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, a little bit bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had a variety of capital that received burned by very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t quit on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery programs, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had one of the best battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless one of the best battery know-how. There are a variety of firms that may use their battery programs and have a variety of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are a variety of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve your individual proprietary software program, and also you provide a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options primarily based on the ability ranges that they want. If you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually vital that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s important to keep the chargers?” Effectively, it’s essential to keep your automotive, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece we’ve got, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. When you have a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your telephone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even realize it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. When you choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different telephone calls. That’s what prospects are pissed off with. One telephone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, keep it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re searching for, and that’s what we do.
One in all our authentic traders was an organization referred to as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide prospects. You can ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They’ll inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that a variety of the issues are as a result of there is perhaps half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a undertaking.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do associate with sure prospects or sure firms. For engineering, we’d associate with somebody. I’ll associate on the prime of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I received to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their palms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve received three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep programs. With us, it’s all on one display. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the largest promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see all the things in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I received to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their palms.”
For these about to impress
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are a number of the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “You must pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for a protracted, very long time, so that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you’ve got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, for those who take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We received 100 vans. We’ve got to cost all of them. We’ve received one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s once you hear all people busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Effectively, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do a variety of modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve got. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve got on the depot.” We mannequin for them the dimensions charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of evening at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but in addition work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking tens of millions of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the largest mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Effectively, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing a variety of proper now with prospects that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping all the things out—rip and substitute. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. The whole lot within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous vital.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We received a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as normal.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been considering. Is it political? It may be in some circumstances the place we’ve got to take care of a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which might be going electrical that don’t must. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Effectively, as we speak, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like an everyday fueling station. They refill at evening, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You provide a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is actually enticing to a variety of fleet prospects.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants differ. Some prospects have a variety of idle time. Some prospects are placing a variety of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as nicely. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want a variety of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in all the day, we’d go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from someone in Kansas that is perhaps working a good distance. So, we wish to give these choices to prospects and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a number of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve got our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with a variety of fleet prospects as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is actually enticing—you don’t must get right into a Stage 3, which will be very costly. And the neat factor in regards to the Genius is we’ve got them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve got them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve got right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, once you see our label on it, it’s important to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s someone else’s. We do this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re blissful.
The same old questions on traits
Charged: Persons are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s a variety of firms, and a few them not too long ago went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be in-built the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Not too long ago, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s an excellent factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a extremely good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we’d like the suitable variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I believe consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve got a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the dimensions of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking over area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high charge, however it means that you can cut up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually provides you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or have you learnt of some industrial functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one in all our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, however it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually needs it, and so they need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve got a storm and the electrical energy goes down, nicely, I’ve received an influence station proper right here—we’ve received 1,000 faculty buses sitting there stuffed with vitality. I simply must have the aptitude to tug it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a industrial utility the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
